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October 07, 2005 at 11:59 am
"God told me to..."
From The Independent Online:
The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to “enslave whole nations” and set up a radical Islamic empire “that spans from Spain to Indonesia”. In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: “I’m driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.’ And I did, and then God would tell me, ‘George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,’ and I did.”Read the rest here.
And “now again”, Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, “I feel God’s words coming to me: ‘Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.’ And by God, I’m gonna do it.”
I’m sorry, but I really don’t know how to respond to this.
(Link via Richard Hall.)
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Comments (13)
Yikes. As a conservative and as a member of Religious Right, this has been one of my main contentions with our president. It’s one thing to appointed by God and another to be Anointed. Anyone claiming post-canon words from God just worries me.
» Comment by dennisthemenace () , on October 07, 2005 at 1:21 pm
Is language like this from an evangelical, born-again, Christian surprising? If so, I think we should ask ourselves whether it should be.
Don’t we often ask for God’s guidance or say that we want to follow God’s will. If God doesn’t impress His will upon us, how are we to know if we are following it? If he doesn’t lead us, how do we know how to follow?
I doubt very seriously that the President would say that he has audibly heard God’s voice, but I’m sure that he feels led by God. If he doesn’t, we all need to be very concerned.
Certainly nothing that he says in the article is inconsistent with the nature of God or things that God has had world leaders do in the past.
Don’t we often ask for God’s guidance or say that we want to follow God’s will. If God doesn’t impress His will upon us, how are we to know if we are following it? If he doesn’t lead us, how do we know how to follow?
I doubt very seriously that the President would say that he has audibly heard God’s voice, but I’m sure that he feels led by God. If he doesn’t, we all need to be very concerned.
Certainly nothing that he says in the article is inconsistent with the nature of God or things that God has had world leaders do in the past.
» Comment by Todd M () (URL), on October 08, 2005 at 4:01 pm
Well, that’s the funny thing, Todd… As much as you “doubt very seriously that the President would say that he has audibly heard God’s voice,” I feel very strongly that he would say that.
In my opinion, he is clearly admitting that by saying things like, “...God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists…’”.
I don’t feel like this is a case of misinterpretted evangelical Christian language… Although, now that I think about it, what is “evangelical Christian language”? I don’t think I’ve ever seen an example of it in the bible (unless George W. Bush is a reincarnated Old Testament prophet, that is).
In my opinion, he is clearly admitting that by saying things like, “...God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists…’”.
I don’t feel like this is a case of misinterpretted evangelical Christian language… Although, now that I think about it, what is “evangelical Christian language”? I don’t think I’ve ever seen an example of it in the bible (unless George W. Bush is a reincarnated Old Testament prophet, that is).
» Comment by timsamoff () (URL), on October 09, 2005 at 07:50 am
“Evangelical Christian language” is not a phrase that I used, but if I had used it I would have been referring to language that is often used by evangelical Christians.
As someone who, for better or worse, has been around evangelical Christians my entire life, this language is not unusual or concerning to me—especially in the context of the life of this President.
If he had said that he had a vision or an out of body experience or that he had audibly heard God speak to him, I would have some concerns.
Initially I thought that he was a little off-base by saying that he was supposed to be working for peace in the Middle East—especially since Scripture is abundantly clear that this will never happen. But then I was reminded that David charged his readers to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that just because something will not ultimately happen doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t work toward a betterment of the situation.
Do I wish that President Bush were better spoken, or came across as more intelligent, or had more fully considered the cost of the war? Of course. But he is the leader of our country — an awesome responsibility which we could argue fairly convincingly was ordained from eternity past — and I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt on these remarks.
And although I don’t think that God speaks audibly to people anymore, I would hope that if He did make exception it would be for the leader of the free world.
As someone who, for better or worse, has been around evangelical Christians my entire life, this language is not unusual or concerning to me—especially in the context of the life of this President.
If he had said that he had a vision or an out of body experience or that he had audibly heard God speak to him, I would have some concerns.
Initially I thought that he was a little off-base by saying that he was supposed to be working for peace in the Middle East—especially since Scripture is abundantly clear that this will never happen. But then I was reminded that David charged his readers to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and that just because something will not ultimately happen doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t work toward a betterment of the situation.
Do I wish that President Bush were better spoken, or came across as more intelligent, or had more fully considered the cost of the war? Of course. But he is the leader of our country — an awesome responsibility which we could argue fairly convincingly was ordained from eternity past — and I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt on these remarks.
And although I don’t think that God speaks audibly to people anymore, I would hope that if He did make exception it would be for the leader of the free world.
» Comment by Todd M () (URL), on October 09, 2005 at 3:50 pm
sorry for my strikethrough above—wasn’t expecting that to happen…
» Comment by Todd M () (URL), on October 09, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Well-spoken, Todd… You make some good points. (By the way, I know you didn’t use Evangelical Christian language as a phrase, I was just using it to sum up “language spoken by…”)
Anyway, I guess I still have a different opinion about it. No big deal, though…
Another opinion I have concerns your last sentence about God making exceptions… I hope — and even pray — that God would make exceptions for the leaders of our world (not only the one who heads the “free world”). In this same way, I don’t think that we should make exceptions for whomever leads the world. I think that we should have high expectations for that person (or people) to be intelligent and well-spoken — enough so that we could have confidence in that person (or those people). As it stands, I don’t. (But, then again, I’m pretty cynical, and I know that’s bad too.)
Anyway, I guess I still have a different opinion about it. No big deal, though…
Another opinion I have concerns your last sentence about God making exceptions… I hope — and even pray — that God would make exceptions for the leaders of our world (not only the one who heads the “free world”). In this same way, I don’t think that we should make exceptions for whomever leads the world. I think that we should have high expectations for that person (or people) to be intelligent and well-spoken — enough so that we could have confidence in that person (or those people). As it stands, I don’t. (But, then again, I’m pretty cynical, and I know that’s bad too.)
» Comment by timsamoff () (URL), on October 10, 2005 at 09:24 am
I, surprisingly again, side with Tim more. Though Todd has made good points in reference to how evangelicals speak. I’ve been around it enough to know what he’s talking about. However, these types of statments warrant such scrutiny when it effect the entire country and others as well. I think he is clearly saying he’s receiving post-canon statments from God but i can see how it can be misunderstood.
» Comment by dennisthemenace () , on October 11, 2005 at 10:06 am
Oh, come on… Is it that surprising?! 
» Comment by timsamoff () (URL), on October 11, 2005 at 10:11 am
Is GWB the anti-Christ?
On another note, God can speak audibly today if he so chooses. Who decided and when that God can’t speak audibly today? Why would God have a servant kill people? What about Grace, love and mercy? And don’t give me the answer, “well, it’s in the Bible” crap, because some of the Bible are stories that tell truths and some are contextual to that time and not meant to make a doctrine out of. Just stiring the pot up!
» Comment by Existential Punk () (URL), on October 11, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Wow. A lot of questions. Stirring indeed! 
(I’ll let someone else tackle these ones.)
(I’ll let someone else tackle these ones.)
» Comment by timsamoff () (URL), on October 12, 2005 at 08:41 am
Well, EP, let me ask: What scriptures are limited to time and place? What you’re talking about is called hermeneutics. How you read the Bible. “It’s in the Bible” isn’t a sufficent answer, but its a correct answer. There are numerous reasons and scripture that lead us to believe that God does not speak audibly to us today. Yes, some disagree and typically they wind up leading cults, making false predictions or are just plain nutty. You could argue otherwise, but i think that view has less validity by scripture. I can get you websites to study the arguments for yourself if you like.
» Comment by dennisthemenace () , on October 12, 2005 at 11:18 am
P.S. Here’s a little something to chew on:
Scripture is utterly sufficient, “able to make you wise for salvation” and able to make you “thoroughly equipped for every good work.” What clearer affirmation of the absolute sufficiency of Scripture could anyone ask for? Those who seek fresh messages from God have, in effect, scorned the absolute certainty and absolute sufficiency of the written Word of God. And they have set in its place their own fallen and fallible imaginations.
Does this mean God has stopped speaking? Certainly not, but he speaks today through his Word. Does the Spirit of God move our hearts and impress us with specific duties or callings? Certainly, but he works through the Word of God to do that. Such experiences are in no sense prophetic or authoritative. They are not revelation, but the effect of illumination, when the Holy Spirit applies the Word of God to our hearts and opens our spiritual eyes to its truth.
We must guard carefully against allowing our experience and our own subjective thoughts and imaginations to eclipse the authority and the certainty of the more sure Word.
If you like, i can point you to the full article. Rock on.
Scripture is utterly sufficient, “able to make you wise for salvation” and able to make you “thoroughly equipped for every good work.” What clearer affirmation of the absolute sufficiency of Scripture could anyone ask for? Those who seek fresh messages from God have, in effect, scorned the absolute certainty and absolute sufficiency of the written Word of God. And they have set in its place their own fallen and fallible imaginations.
Does this mean God has stopped speaking? Certainly not, but he speaks today through his Word. Does the Spirit of God move our hearts and impress us with specific duties or callings? Certainly, but he works through the Word of God to do that. Such experiences are in no sense prophetic or authoritative. They are not revelation, but the effect of illumination, when the Holy Spirit applies the Word of God to our hearts and opens our spiritual eyes to its truth.
We must guard carefully against allowing our experience and our own subjective thoughts and imaginations to eclipse the authority and the certainty of the more sure Word.
If you like, i can point you to the full article. Rock on.
» Comment by dennisthemenace () , on October 12, 2005 at 11:27 am
Born: June 9, 1972










